Biography
The following interview on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 is with Buck Files who received his Bachelors of Arts from Austin College, a Masters of Liberal Arts and Jurist Doctorate from SMU. The interviewer is Jeremie B. Castleberry.JC is Jeremie Castleberry
BF is Buck Files
Transcript
The interviewer is Jeremie B. Castleberry, and the interviewee is Buck Files.JC: My first question is , where do you currently reside?
BF: In Tyler, Texas.
JC: Do you? Ok..How long have you lived there?
BF: Oh, for thirty-five years.
JC: Thirty-five years..What is your educational background? Where did you go to college?
BF: Bachelor of Arts from Austin College, Master of Liberal Arts SMU, Jurist Doctorate from SMU.
JC: What about your uh..law degree?
BF: SMU
JC: SMU? OK…What is your present position and how long have you held this post? That's pretty…
BF: Lawyer for Texas…I was admitted to practice in 1963 and I have been a lawyer ever since then.
JC: OK..Uh…How did you work with the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas?
BF: The only practice that I have is in the area of criminal and civil rights cases. I have represented the sheriff's office in federal litigation for twenty-two years and have defended civil rights cases filed alleging improper conduct against the sheriff or members of his staff or sometimes members of the Commissioners court. I have also done general criminal practice in the United States courts for the last um..close to thirty years.
JC: OK…What changes have you gone, has the court system gone through in your time that you've been doing this?
BF: In 1984, congress passed a comprehensive crime control act of 1984 which set up the United States sentencing commission which eventually promenaded the United States sentencing guidelines. This was the first significant uh..act um..perhaps ever in the history of the federal courts involving criminal cases. Uh…judges had significant discretion taken away from them as a result of this act. Also, you have significantly…uh…higher penalties for many offenses especially fraud offenses as a result of this litigation. Uh..because of the sentencing guidelines significantly fewer cases actually go to trial than they did before the guidelines. Uh…as far as other changes, in 1970 we only had two United..in 1969 we only had two United States District Judges uh…in the district. It went from two to three in 19 un 70, now we have uh…one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, uh…that I can think of uh…judges here, so the judges, the judges themselves do not travel as much as they used to.
JC: OK…
BF: One other difference, uh…when I came here the, the real criminal practitioners were basically the state court uh…the federal folks were trying things like interstate transportation.
JC: Uh-Huh.
BF: Stolen motor vehicles, they might try a bank robbery case occasionally, uh…interstate transportation of females for unlawful purposes, uh…embezzlement, things like that. Now the federal courts are trying the uh…major cases….uh…the conspiracy cases, to do, to do all sorts of things, um…the right jury, influence corrupt organizations cases, uh…drug cases…uh…um…involving large quantities are being tried more and more often in federal courts. So the quality of the criminal practice has changed dramatically in the last thirty years.
JC: OK. Uh…discuss the public perception of the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas.
BF: Actually, you have a number of divisions in the Eastern District. You have Texarkana, Marshall, Beaumont, Tyler, Sherman, and Paris divisions and my knowledge of the uh…court is primarily on the Tyler division. We have three United States district judges here who are held in high estate. Judge Davis is the newest member of the local judiciary, uh…he clearly uh…has had a distinguished uh…practice here in Tyler and uh…is well thought of. Um…you've got Judges Hannah, Steger, and uh…Davis as United States district judges. You have judges uh…McKee and Guthry as the magistrate judges, Judge Parker is the bankruptcy judge. Uh…these judges…uh…are not known as activist judges, they have been strict instructionist as far as following the law uh…they are courteous uh…to the lawyers and the litigates and the people who come into the court and it is my perception that uh…they are very well respected and that they have earned that respect.
JC: Has the court shaped public opinion? Or been shaped by it?
BF: I think the court's clearly shaped public opinion in this area, uh…you would not uh…remember when uh…uh…long hair was prohibited at Tyler Junior College there was a law suit filed and the United States District Court here uh…found that the rules were uh…unconstitutional and the dress code people learned that going to Tyler Junior College is different because of the court. Yes… Interruption
JC: OK…What judges have been influential to you and how?
BF: In Tyler?
JC: Uh…Yeah, I guess in the Eastern court, the Tyler federal court system. Or what judges have you been involved with on a regular and close basis?
BF: Judge Steger has been on the bench since 1970, here in Tyler. Judge Steger was in private practice when I was prosecutor here and uh…we had cases uh…against each other in the state court. Uh…the um…Smith County Sheriff's office was involved in a class action in Judge Steger's court and uh…he had control over the jail for some eighteen and a half years and we were in and out of his court or discussing matters with his staff on uh…at least a weekly basis for more than eighteen years. Uh…you don't have many judges that you have contact with for more than thirty years. So, in a community that's been a pleasure, it's important to be there. John Hannah uh…1979-80-81 and 82. Hannah and I had lots of cases together and uh…Hannah as a prosecutor, I was defending. Uh…Hannah and I tried a capital murder case together in the late 80's and hung a jury eleven to one for acquittal. And then since he's been a United States District Judge I've been in his court on uh…many occasions. Leonard Davis uh…is new on the bench and I have not practiced in front of him. I look forward to it because he was a fine trial lawyer and an excellent chief justice of court of appeals. Have had uh…corporate cases in the criminal justice system um…involving uh…the right uh…to be free from unreasonable search and seizure. Uh…to have due process of law. To have a fair trial. Uh…there have been cases involving civil side uh…equal protection of the law uh…desegregation cases…uh…back in the uh…60's. Uh…all of the constitutional issues which we have seen in the last fifty years in America uh…have had representative cases here in Tyler, Texas.
JC: OK. How has the law changed as a result of the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Texas?
BF: It hasn't.
JC: Hasn't.
BF: The law hasn't changed. The court has only interpreted the law, or applied the law, it has not made the law.
JC: OK. In what direction is the court moving?
BF: It is difficult to say the court is moving in any direction because the trial judges are required to follow precedence in making their decisions. The opinions of the United States Supreme Court are obviously controlling in the absence of Supreme Court decisions. The opinions of the United States Court of Appeals of this circuit are controlling. The United States District Judges do not have very much latitude in breaking new ground. Uh…while there are cases of first impression, they are not of such a nature as to permit one to say that the district courts are moving in a particular direction.
JC: OK. What are the attorney judicial relationships like?
BF: Superior. The judges in this district uh…unlike for example, the tyrant John McBride, in the northern district, show courtesy, indifference to council, give the council a welcome table, and show courtesy to the court. The lawyers are permitted to try their cases without judicial interference. Uh..the uh..lawyers around the state are consistently complimentary of the judges in the Tyler division of this district for permitting them to be able to be lawyers in the trial of cases.
JC: OK. How have particular judges shaped your view of the law or society?
BF: I honestly don't see that.
JC: OK…OK.
BF: They haven't "shaped" my view of the law or society. They just haven't.
JC: Well, I think that's about all of them. OK. Here's one. Uh…Did any of the judges shape the times or were they the product of the times?
BF: Well, I think you could say that the judges here have shaped the times. Uh…the United States District Judge William Wayne Justice had uh…Ruiz versus Estelle and uh…as a result of that case, the operation of the Texas prison system was under his control for more than thirty years. Only recently did uh…the this circuit uh…approve of an order signed by him uh…taking control of the uh…prison system or giving it back to the state in essence. Uh…when the uh…multiple school district here was dragging its feet on desegregation in the 60's oh…excuse me early 70's, once again this was in Judge Justice's court and we are still under the uh.. a version of the original order requiring a school system to do things and not do other things just because uh…because of the original desegregation suit. Uh…the operation of the jail uh…obviously was impacted by Judge Steger because we were under his court order. Yes, the local judges have had a dramatic impact on the local society.
JC: OK. I don't know if this will connect to any of the other things we discussed, but what judges have particular issues and what issues were most important?
BF: I just know that in my mind, different judges have likes and prejudices like all human beings and it appears to me that the judges in the court here in Tyler have been very successful in disguising their likes and dislikes so that it doesn't key council on what they should or shouldn't do to incur favor.
JC: OK. I guess one last question. What case in…do you think was the most influential in this district?
BF: Oh…I'd have to say it was the Ruiz case because it impacted the operation of the Texas prison system for so many years. Uh…not, not long ago our prison system went from uh…sixty-five thousand beds to one hundred forty-five thousand beds. If we hadn't had the Ruiz they probably never would have made that significant of a jump. Uh…so Ruiz verses Estelle is perhaps the most significant single decision to come out of the United States District Court of the Eastern District of Texas. Uh…in the last fifty years.
JC: OK.
BF: Judith K. Guthry is a magistrate, she is basically a saint, she has wonderful judicial temperament and in representing Smith County I have been in her court on uh…oh…probably close to a hundred occasions. Uh…Pete…Pete McKee, uh…Harry W. McKee is a fine fine magistrate. He has been on the bench forever. We have about the same number of cases uh…in front of Judge McKee on appearances. Uh…so I have been with all of the judges at one time or another. Turn it off. Interruption.
BF: Go back to that.
JC: OK.
BF: You on?
JC: Yes sir.
BF: Before I came to Tyler, the Smith County courthouse had been reportedly blamed in fully constructed and the jail would only hold uh…a hundred people. Uh…average daily population back uh…then was less than a hundred but by 19 uh..by late 1970's daily population was something over two hundred uh…people. Uh…obviously the jail was not in compliance with the requirements here, the federal constitution, or the rules and regulations of Texas Commission on Jail Standards. Uh…a lawsuit was filed which uh…required us to uh…admit that we had problems and agree to makes changes. Uh…a bond issue was held and was voted down. Uh..the federal court was very patient…uh..appointed an uh…special committee to make suggestions to the community and they were able to get uh…a new jail built. Since then they have built two more jails and renovated the facilities in the old courthouse where we can now hold over seven hundred and fifty people. If the court had not uh…permitted the community to act uh…and to solve its own problems, uh…the county would have been uh…required to bus prisoners to other jails and uh…pay anywhere from forty to fifty dollars a day upkeep for them. That would have been a tremendous drain on the community. And, so the community was clearly shaped in its construction of jails and uh…the uh…housing prisoners, everything having to do with housing prisoners of the federal court here which acted in a very, very patient manner. Go ahead.
JC: OK. What cases have been influential to you? Or have been influential all around?
BF: What cases that I've tried?
JC: Yeah.
BF: What's some court cases that I've read?
JC: Yeah that you have been involved with.
BF: Tyler's been a fun place for federal court. Uh… I looked at one case that was as much fun as any other case. It involved uh..an importation of cocaine. It was a Collie Cartel case. Uh…we had a client who was uh..caught with another man with approximately twenty-five hundred pounds of cocaine. He had been responsible for bringing approximately thirty thousand pounds of cocaine into Texas. Uh..under the federal sentencing guidelines he should have gotten a life sentence. Uh..he chose to cooperate and the drug man was a major witness in federal prosecutions here, back in Florida, was available to testify in New Jersey, and his information resulted in extra territorial activities by federal agents in Central America. When it was all over uh…he spent something like forty-six months in confinement, five months in a halfway house. Uh…he had death threats during the trial of the case and has survived. Uh…for little ol' Tyler Texas it's uncommon to have a Collie Cartel case. Uh…we've seen all the uh…oh…everything from the crack cocaine to the meth labs um…the fraud cases back in the 80's when the finest citizens of communities of East Texas were being prosecuted for bank fraud because their companies had failed and they were unable to repay debts to federally insured money lending institutions. Uh…we've seen a re-co case back in the late 70's where uh…it was an early re-co case in the district where the sheriff was engaged in narcotics, prostitution, uh…drugs, gambling, uh…we were here though we didn't participate in the Gregg County corruption cases. There have been a lot of drug cases here in Tyler.
JC: OK. What type of work do you traditionally do before the court?
BF: Civil Rights, Defensive Civil Rights cases involving law enforcement officers and representation of citizen's accused of criminal conduct.
JC: OK. What judges have affected daily life and the community?
BF: Same as above.
JC: OK. What issues were the most important?
BF: It is in United States Courts that matters of constitutional impore are decided. In Tyler we have had cases involving freedom of speech. We...
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